Episode 23

Meshtastic - The Beginning of a Vertical

Jonathan Bennett, core developer and co-founder of Meshtastic Solutions, and Tony Good, hardware designer and entrepreneur, talk about the evolution of Meshtastic from a grassroots mesh network to a tool with real commercial potential.

Meshtastic began as a communication system for hikers and adventurers operating beyond cell coverage. Today, it’s proving useful in disaster response, search and rescue, vehicle tracking, and other use cases where reliable, off-grid communication is essential. Jonathan explains how the core team, alongside a global group of contributors, is hardening the platform with better encryption, Linux support, and integration tools to make it easier for businesses to adopt.

Tony shares how he built a business around designing rugged, user-friendly Meshtastic cases and complete devices, helping users deploy the tech without needing to source and print their own enclosures. He highlights how demand for ready-made devices has grown as more public service organizations and small businesses explore using Meshtastic.

Together, they talk about:

  • Meshtastic’s value in off-grid communication for emergency response and field operations
  • Real-world examples including blackout recovery in Portugal and large-scale search and rescue
  • How sensors are starting to be integrated to expand Meshtastic’s capabilities beyond messaging
  • Opportunities to bridge small mesh networks with the internet using MQTT
  • The role of Meshtastic Solutions in providing consulting and vendor partnerships to support adoption in business contexts

Meshtastic is at the start of a vertical shift from hobbyist project to deployable infrastructure—and this episode shows where it’s going next.

Links:

Company site: https://meshtastic.com/

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Transcript
Speaker:

Today's guests on MeteoScientifc's

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The Business of LoRaWAN

are Jonathan Bennett and Tony Good.,

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two of the core contributors

to the Meshtastic Open Source project

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and co-founders of Meshtastic solutions.

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Jonathan is one of the lead

developers behind Meshtastic’s

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firmware and Linux integration.

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while Tony designs rugged

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purpose built cases

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and complete devices that make the system

usable in the real world.

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Together with the wider team

of developers, engineers and contributors,

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they're helping shape the future of off

grid mesh communications.

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In this episode, we talk through

real world use cases like disaster

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response in Portugal, low cost

search and rescue deployments in the US,

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and how small businesses and agencies

are beginning to use Meshtastic for GPS

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tRAKing,

environmental monitoring, and more.

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You'll also hear how they're working

with vendors like RAK to onboard sensors,

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everything from compasses to rain gauges,

and why this lightweight LoRa

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based system is gaining interest

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from state governments

and even enterprise teams inside Amazon.

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Whether you're a business

evaluating Meshtastic for your use case,

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or just curious how open source projects

scale into commercial grade solutions,

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Jonathan and Tony bring clarity

and insight from the front lines.

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This episode is sponsored by the Helium

Foundation's IoT working Group.

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Helium offers global LoRaWAN coverage

and is used by everyone

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from hobbyists to businesses

deploying countrywide networks.

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If you'd like to see if Helium

coverage exists near you,

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check out the links in the show notes

to get started using Helium today.

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You can sign up for a console account

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with MeteoScientifc

at console.meteoscientific.com

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Now let's dig into the conversation

with Jonathan Bennett and Tony Good.

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Jonathan.

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Tony,

welcome to The Business of LoRaWAN show.

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Thanks for coming

on, guys. Hey, Nik. It's good to be here.

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Thank you.

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I'm psyched to have you guys on.

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I thought we'd start this off.

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We may kind of back into this. Okay.

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With how Meshtastic started

and certainly how you guys found it.

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And I found it.

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But do you have a favorite

Meshtastic story?

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Ooh, that is a really good question.

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So yeah, a lot of the things you talk

about here on the show is very business

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centric.

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Meshtastic is kind of slowly

moving that way.

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We feel like there's some things

that might make sense for businesses,

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but for the vast majority of use cases

right now, it's individuals.

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And, you know, kind of the initial idea

was it's a dudes

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out on a hike together out past

where their cell phones work.

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And so that has kind of turned into a lot

of people have looked at that and gone

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disaster preparedness.

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And so we've got kind of a big community

thinking about that right now.

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My favorite story is back a couple of

months ago in Portugal and Spain.

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Power grid

went down for like a couple of days.

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It was kind of a big deal for them.

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There were some tourists

that also happened to be Meshtastic users,

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and they were staying like out

in the villa somewhere in Portugal,

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and the lights just went off

and they're like, what is going on?

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They had their Meshtastic devices.

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They pulled their Meshtastic device out

and just sent over the public mesh.

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So, you know, the people that are in

within a couple of mile area,

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what's going on?

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The locals that were

there were able to get news

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and they knew what was going on.

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And were telling them, giving back

the answer.

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Power grid went down

maybe down for a couple of days.

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And so these tourists, these guys

that, you know,

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legitimately could have been in a tough

spot,

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were able to get news and get updates

over the mesh using Meshtastic

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and kind of stay abreast

of what's going on right now.

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That's my that's my favorite story

of things I've heard people doing.

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Rad doesn't get much better.

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Tony, what he got, mine's very easy.

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Dovetailing off what Jonathan started

with.

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I'm more of the I was looking for an off

grid com solution.

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I was in the army for 20 years,

so I like simplicity

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and I live in Maryland

and way out in western Maryland.

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It's better

now, but cell coverage used to be abysmal.

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So you go out in the woods, you'd hike,

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you see the sights, and at the time

to double down on terrible comms.

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I had T-Mobile

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no towers in the area, so I went out there

basically, like alone and afraid.

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Primitive, you know,

smoke signal level type, you know?

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Yeah, capabilities.

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So I realized

I needed something that could communicate

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at least a 1 to 2km in very dense

vegetation.

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The Meshtastic easily does that.

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Since then, I switched to Verizon.

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They built towers because a lot

more wealthy people moved out there,

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so they know their customer base,

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and it's better now,

but it's still great to have a backup.

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Very, very cool.

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I think we all came to it

in different ways.

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I found Meshtastic funnily enough, through

searching for a lost paraglider.

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So it's always like the use case

that drives it.

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So it started off as being used

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for hikers, bikers,

you know, folks out there, pilots.

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Kevin has kicked the whole thing off

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and he's a paraglider pilot,

if I remember correctly.

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And now it's

starting to move into business.

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So someone's listening to this

and they've heard about LoRaWAN,

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they've heard about Meshtastic,

and they're wondering

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if they could

or should use it in their business.

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Maybe we start off

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by talking about what businesses

are you guys seeing use Meshtastic.

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We're still in kind of the initial stages.

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So we have recently launched Meshtastic

Solutions, which is our business

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kind of around trying to turn this thing

into accessible to businesses.

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Right.

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Like that's

one of the things that we're trying to do

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is have a place where businesses

could come and get support,

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and we've got reach out from

one of them, is like a state government,

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one of these big states

that's out in the middle of nowhere.

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You can probably do the math

and figure out where I'm talking about.

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But you have pilots that'll be out there

and, you know, they're far

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enough out that maybe their regular radio

doesn't work all that well.

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And so they're looking for like a way

to get weather updates in the air.

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And so this is a potentially

a pretty big use that's coming.

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I am also aware of apparently people

at Amazon are looking into this.

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And I'm not sure all of the things

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that they're using looking to use it for

that's not live yet, but we just

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we got told

that they're kind of looking at it.

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And so we're still kind of exploring

and mapping out like,

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where does this make sense?

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I tell you I use it,

I've got one of these in my vehicle

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and it has a GPS in it,

and it sends back location beacons

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and so I can tRAK

where my vehicle is around town.

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And so, you know, there's a use case

for stuff like that, basically anything

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where you want to be able to do

location tRAKing, it's pretty good at.

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Cool, Tony, anything to add to that

that you're seeing?

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Yeah, I guess it's semi commercial.

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More of a public services standpoint.

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There are many search

and rescue organizations around the US

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that have adopted Meshtastic as at least

a secondary communications platform.

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They have the radios.

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The problem with those things,

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especially

the ones that are like satellite,

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you know, connected, they can cost upwards

of 5 to $800 per radio.

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So if you have one of those

as your primary,

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so you have a group of like 50 people,

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you want to canvass an area

looking for a lost kid.

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You have five of those radios.

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You have five groups of ten people.

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One of those people has,

you know, the parent,

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the leader has their expensive radio.

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And then you have a bunch of 30 to $40

Meshtastic nodes.

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They can scatter around

people can communicate with each other,

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the person with the main radio

and relay that stuff.

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So really it's as I'd say, as we say

in the military, it's a force multiplier

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in a big way for those organizations.

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So it's that and also

I think there's been an interesting

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use case was

somebody used to do off road truck racing

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and they were they were using some custom

settings to tRAK trucks in real time

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at high speed, to be able

to see where they were and plot that

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on a custom map, which I thought was

a really cool use case.

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That is super cool.

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I know Shawn over at K 38, she does jet

ski rescue she worked Katrina and Harvey.

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She worked a bunch of the big disasters

we've had here in the US,

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and she got wind of Meshtastic

and got a bunch of these things

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for her next, for the next disaster

that comes down the pipe.

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So good to see that.

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Let's see where the sensors fit in.

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This thing started off as kind of

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just a couple people

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talking to each other,

and now I'm seeing like,

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oh yeah, let's feed

some sensor data into the network.

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Yeah.

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So we've got

one of our vendors is RAK Wireless.

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And you know,

they're all about IoT things.

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But one of their big

one of the cool things that they do

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is they make a whole bunch

of sensor modules.

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And so they've got the boards.

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It's actually here

I've got you wouldn't know it

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by looking at it, but this is a RAK 4631

inside of this thing.

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And so they've got their whole ecosystem

of like snap on modules.

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And so you can do this one

in fact has a compass sensor in it.

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And so you know, it'll tell you

which direction you're pointing.

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So if you're out again out in the middle

of nowhere, you can navigate.

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But we can snap in temperature sensors.

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We are there's a, like humidity,

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I think there's even a soil

monitoring sensor.

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And then one of the things

that we're doing

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as Solutions is we're working with RAK

to like we support

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a bunch of them already,

but to expand kind of the list.

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And so RAK

has recently sent us an earthquake sensor.

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I think we have a radiation sensor coming.

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There's a couple of people

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that make like rain gauges

and weather monitoring stations

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that are Meshtastic powered.

Those are pretty cool.

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So like there's a lot

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the list is huge and I can't think

of all of them off the top of my head,

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but it's growing and people are doing

interesting things with that too.

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And so there's there's no limit to

what can get sent.

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I mean, we tend to be human centric

and say, like, I'm going to send you text,

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but it's still just data

at the end of the day.

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So any sensor it sounds like

can be onboarded to Meshtastic.

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Yeah.

If you can serialize your sensor data.

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Now, one thing to keep in mind

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people need to know

this Meshtastic is not high bandwidth.

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It's really low bandwidth.

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That is how we have ranges way

way further than Wi-Fi can go

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is because we're way slower than Wi-Fi,

right?

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It's just it's built into the LoRa center.

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And people that know LoRaWAN probably know

this already because it's very similar.

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And I guess that's something else to

to make sure we mention.

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Meshtastic uses Lora,

but it does not use LoRaWAN.

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No, I think of it

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a little bit like a moving LoRaWAN

that's not connected to the internet.

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So it's just like this bubble of bubbles

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that kind of cruise around and goes

wherever you go as long as other devices

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there, it's not connected to the internet

that's on you to figure out,

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yeah, how to do that.

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I would hate for somebody to go to buy

like a:

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and then try to get Meshtastic

to talk to that.

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I did that once upon a time,

and that project ended in failure.

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So don't do that. Don't spend that money.

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Sooner or later

it'll it'll end up with the success

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because I can't see a reason eventually

to not be able to say, hey,

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I'm going to take my small

mobile mesh network and connect

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that into some of the largest networks

in the world.

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There's no no reason not to do that

other than a bunch of technically complex

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reasons.

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Yeah, we currently do that

with MQTT to bridge over the internet,

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so there's already use cases

that utilize those bridges currently.

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So the whole story with that 1301 is

somebody made it as a Raspberry Pi hat,

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I forget which vendor it was,

but somebody made this thing. Yep.

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And so I'm, I could

probably make this thing work right.

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You know, I was I say young and dumb.

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It wasn't that long ago, but

I was overambitious about what I could do.

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And so I ordered one.

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I spent like a hundred bucks on it and

got it and slapped it on the Raspberry Pi.

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Started getting to work on it.

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And what you what you quickly find out

is like those concentrators,

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the ones that are available now,

they're specifically set up for LoRaWAN,

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and we use a different sync word

than LoRaWAN does.

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And from what I could tell, like

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there isn't any way to get into those

and override the sync word.

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So that's kind of what the problem

with that one in particular. No

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devices

in the future that may be different,

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because we have found out that we are

officially on Semtech's radar now.

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So that's interesting.

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But anyway, I got that

and couldn't get it to work.

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I found a kind of an older,

not concentrator,

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just a LoRa chip on a Raspberry Pi hat.

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I said, well, let me try this.

It actually got that one working.

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And so now we have kind of this

whole ecosystem, we call it Meshtastic D

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and it is the metastatic

firmware running on.

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It's on Linux for now.

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We sort of have some hope eventually

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making it work on other platforms,

but very Linux centric for now.

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But there's like 3 or 4 different devices

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that we support

where you can run Meshtastic on a Linux.

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No. Whether it's Raspberry Pi or a router,

maybe a desktop computer, a server.

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I've got some interesting ideas for that.

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And so like those are,

you know, you're now

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talking about putting them on the internet

and some, some really interesting things

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going on there. Yeah, there's cool stuff

coming on the pipe.

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So this is a business centric podcast.

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You guys are running Meshtastic Solutions.

This is an open source thing.

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So kind of anyone can build this stuff.

But it is technically complex.

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It can be a pain in the butt

to figure out.

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It's usually easier

just to hire an expert to figure it out.

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What are some of the services you offer?

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Or maybe some of the

the extra pieces that go into, you know,

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I've bought a bunch of these boards

and I go find some

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when I started, find some 3D printer

and knock on their door like, hey, would

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would you mind printing a case for me?

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So walk me through what you guys like.

How are you guys making money?

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How you run the business.

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So before Solutions existed,

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I stood up a, it's on Etsy

because right now it's easiest for me.

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But I'd like to expand that.

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I started designing what I thought

were more interesting

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looking cases at the time.

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In 2021 2020, there was just like box

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with hole for screen, like there wasn't

a whole lot of writing these things.

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Yeah, people did their best, made it.

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As we all know,

we look for something functional

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and then once starts working,

we start to make it look nice.

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So initially

I started with the venerable T-beam.

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That was one of the original devices

supported the original T-beam.

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Yeah, which people still use.

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There's plenty of them out there

and I still make cases for them.

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And then I branched out

into the different OEMs as they came out

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with these different boards

from RAK, from Heltec from LilyGo.

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That does make the T-beam

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and came up with and again,

I was in the Army for 20 years.

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So, looking for ruggedized,

tactical, military esque kind of look.

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Right. Like most radios look like that.

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And, you know, I started designing

and printing and selling

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both the cases and various parts,

and people can put their own boards

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and assemble them in colors,

patterns, whatever.

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And then I also,

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have sold in the past once the ready made

right out of the box to you.

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So they have a device in there

with a battery and all that sort of stuff.

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And most of these, you know,

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they they attach via Bluetooth to a phone

and your smartphone.

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You already have the use mobile apps.

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So sometimes you don't need a screen.

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You just need the device

and you're using the app.

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Sometimes you have one with a screen.

It has a little bit of info on it.

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It's useful,

but you're still using your app right?

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But what if you don't want to use a phone?

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You don't want to depend on the phone,

or you don't want to have to waste battery

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if you want to keep it.

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If you're out in the middle of nowhere

and you can't readily charge your phone,

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or the power's out and you can't charge it

at all, well, some vendors actually

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one so far have made a standalone

like this is the T-deck Pro.

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It's a it's a sexy like a BlackBerry.

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Yeah.

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It actually uses the same keyboard

which is interesting.

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I they found a stockpile of apparently

and before this came out actually

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and not to try to say they

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they didn't like the idea for me

it was in progress already.

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This is, you know, convergent evolution.

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I came out with my own standalone devices

that have integrated keyboards.

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This is actually an empty case version,

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and I have this weekend,

I'm actually going to come out

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with my clamshell waterproof

little standalone device as well,

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which has a nice big screen and,

you know, allows you to not have to

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rely on the phone.

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It does provide a somewhat

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limited interface,

like you can't put maps on this screen,

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but you have everything else as a compass,

all these things,

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and this is designed by me,

and there are other people

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in the community as well

that have designed

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usually things for their own use cases,

and then they post them to the public

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and people that see that and say, well,

I could use that too.

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And they either print it or buy it

or come up with something on their own.

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And the nice thing is there

there are little cottage

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industries and businesses

like mine that have grown around this.

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Some very skilled, technical

like electrical engineer types

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have come up with custom power

modules, custom circuit boards,

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even complete radios

that they don't have to purchase.

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They make purchase of components

and make their own

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because they needed

some special component.

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So there are a lot of

they're having a lot of great business

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opportunities

just in the open source public community.

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And from a services standpoint,

well, I'll defer to Jonathan,

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but like kind of the sky's the limit there

because any company that has a very

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specific case, they want use case,

they want a tailored solution for

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that is something that, you know, we're

aiming at and not to displace LoRaWAN.

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But sometimes you don't need all that

LoRaWAN has to offer,

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especially at the price and scale.

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The LoRaWAN

kind of assumes that you're going

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to need to use in their products

or are built around that scalability.

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From a very large industrial standpoint,

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this is perhaps a small to medium sized

business.

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Largest could use it to.

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But the idea is to have it to scale it

more efficiently

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:

then what

only lower rank on offer currently.

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So Jonathan,

if you could jump on that as well.

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Yeah.

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:

So two things I'll tag on to that one

right now kind of our bread

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:

and butter business is working

with the existing vendors.

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We sort of went to all of them

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:

and said it would be great

if you helped us make payroll, and we help

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:

you have official Meshtastic stuff

that you know, has supported firmware.

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:

And, you know,

we can give you feedback on design.

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:

And so one of the one of the neat

examples of

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:

that is actually the seed tRAKer card.

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:

This thing is amazing.

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:

It's waterproof.

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:

It's got great firmware support.

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:

It's got the latest Semtech radio in it.

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:

And we were able to give them

some feedback on that.

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:

And so, you know, a little part

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:

of what that device is,

is from the Meshtastic guys.

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:

And so there is that.

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:

And like I said,

that's kind of where we're at now.

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:

But we're also we're in this weird

transition phase where we've had people

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:

start reaching out to us and say, hey,

we want to use Meshtastic

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:

for this weird use case

that you guys never thought of before.

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:

Can you help us do that?

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:

And the answer is yes.

We would love to help you do that.

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:

You know, whether that is just telling you

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:

what we think about your idea, you know,

your general consulting sort of thing.

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:

Or here's how you integrate this in a way

that makes sense with your systems.

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:

Here's how you integrate this with a way

that respects the GPLv3 that the project

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:

has already under all kinds of stuff

like that, and that, you know, for

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:

like big places that really wanted,

kind of a turnkey solution.

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:

We have those existing relationships

with vendors and we've got

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:

we've got one project

that's sort of in process

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:

where we're doing this, and it's like,

this is the solution you want.

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:

We know these guys that have this fab,

let's make the exact piece

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:

of hardware for what you're wanting to do.

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:

And so kind of putting those two together,

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:

that's that's a service

that we can help with as well

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:

because we've worked

with these vendors for,

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:

you know, in some cases

since the beginning of the project

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:

and so kind of have an idea of the,

the pitfalls,

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:

but also the way to really get stuff

done flipping.

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:

So it's in the name Meshtastic Solutions.

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:

Yeah. People should go find you.

Look it up.

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:

I'll put a link down in the description.

Fellas, thanks a ton for coming on.

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:

I know you're super busy

with running a business.

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:

I appreciate you making the time

to talk to us. Appreciate it.

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:

Thanks for having us.

Thank you. Glad to have you.

398

:

That's it for this episode

of The Business of LoRaWAN.

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:

I built this for you.

400

:

So whether you're a business owner,

a LoRaWAN professional or a hobbyist,

401

:

the intent is to give you great floor win

information.

402

:

Of course,

the best information doesn't come from me.

403

:

It comes from the conversations

404

:

we have with the people building

and deploying this tech in the real world.

405

:

And that's where you come in.

406

:

LoRaWAN is a global

patchwork of talent and ideas.

407

:

And ironically,

for a globally connected network,

408

:

most of the brilliant folks

working on it are connected yet.

409

:

Help me change that.

410

:

Introduce me

411

:

to someone awesome in your network,

someone doing meaningful work in Lauren.

412

:

Or just shoot me a name.

413

:

I'll take it from there

414

:

and get them on the show

so we can share their work with the world.

415

:

You can always find me at MetSci.show

416

:

That's M-E-T-S-C-I dot

417

:

S-H-O-W, metsci.show.

418

:

If you want to support the show

in other ways, you can subscribe,

419

:

leave a review,

share it with your corner of the world.

420

:

All those are super helpful.

421

:

If you'd like to support financially,

422

:

you can go to support.metsci.show

One time and recurring options.

423

:

We're also open to sponsors.

424

:

If your company serves

the LoRaWAN community

425

:

and you want to reach this dedicated

audience, let's talk.

426

:

If you want to try it for yourself,

create a MeteoScientific account

427

:

at console.meteoscientific.com

and get your first 400 DC for free,

428

:

which is enough to run a device

sending hourly for about a year.

429

:

This show is supported

430

:

by a grant from the Helium Foundation

and produced by Gristle King, Inc..

431

:

I'm Nik Hawks.

I'll see you in the next show.

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The Business of LoRaWAN
Learn From the Pros

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Nik Hawks

Incurably curious, to stormy nights and the wine-dark sea!