From Prototype to Planet-Scale

Speaker: 00:00:07

Today's guest

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on MeteoScientific's

The Business of LoRaWAN is Violet

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Su from Seeed Studio,

a global leader in AI and IoT hardware.

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Violet leads business

development at Seeed,

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where she helps turn emerging technologies

into real world solutions.

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From edge AI cameras on LoRaWAN

to full sensor to cloud stacks.

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In this episode,

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we get into how she thinks about hardware

for the LoRaWAN ecosystem,

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what meaningful

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customization looks like from prototype

through large scale manufacturing,

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and why open source and tech for good

are central to their strategy.

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We also talk about weather sensing,

community driven product

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development, and where Violet sees LoRaWAN

and AI heading next.

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This episode is sponsored

by the Helium Foundation

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as dedicated

to spreading knowledge about LoRaWAN.

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If you'd like to learn more

about the publicly available

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global LoRaWAN

they run, visit Helium.Foundation.

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Now let's dig into the

conversation with Violet Su.

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Violet, thanks

so much for making the time and coming on.

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You've got a busy schedule, so thank you.

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Thank you so much for having me.

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I'm so excited about joining this as well.

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It's I think you might travel

more than anyone else in LoRaWAN,

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or at least, as you said, over the past

couple of years, where where are you now?

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And we record this November 26th, day

before Thanksgiving.

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Currently I'm in Lymington Spa in England,

and it's a very cold here.

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A little, little chilly in England. Okay.

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Yeah. Cool.

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And for folks,

I can't imagine there's many of them.

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But for folks who don't know what you do,

can you walk me through kind of what

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your job description is and what you do on

maybe a daily or weekly basis?

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So myself my role is business

development assist studio.

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So Seeed is a company

focused on AI and IoT hardware.

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And my role as business development

basically my role in one sentence

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is I strengthen our existing partnership

and also look for new partnership.

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Right.

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And every time I go to a trade show

you are there for sure.

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So you get to to see a lot of what's going

on. Now.

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Seeed hasn't always been so hot and heavy

and I right.

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That's the last couple years.

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I remember getting a camera from you guys

maybe two years ago,

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and it was kind of,

it seemed like the beginning of our

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at least AI and LoRaWAN

for the general public.

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Yeah.

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I think for us, because zero is actually

in the middle of integrating technology,

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turn them into hardware

and then provide them either as open

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source hardware models or devices

for the industry.

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So we always try to adopt the emerging

technology and provide them as hardware

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so that people can access it more easily,

no matter for prototyping

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or for solutions.

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So in the past, it's not very heavy

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with AI, but recent years

it's been growing very fast.

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So we are right.

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The the AI camera with LoRaWAN.

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It was very new.

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We launch it.

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First in 2010, new tool

and LoRaWAN Expo in Paris.

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Yeah.

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And it was pretty exciting at the time

because it was the first kind of

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glimmer of, hey, let's do this

capture and compute right at the edge,

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and then just send the information we see.

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So I saw six people or whatever.

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We don't need to send the images.

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For me, that was a new thing back then.

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I'm sure for people in the industry,

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maybe it was not so new,

but it's pretty exciting

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because one of the things Seeed does

really

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well is make these really complex stacks

pretty accessible.

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If you think about,

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you know, camera vision

and putting all that stuff together

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and putting it into a lower one package

and then adding a camera

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and making the whole thing

work, like there's a lot of moving parts

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there, and Seeed does a really good job of

of putting all that together.

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When you think about what Seeed does,

how would you describe it

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to someone who's in the LoRaWAN business

who may not have heard of you guys?

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So I think,

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we can describe us as a hurry provider

who covers

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from the sensor part that it can allow you

to collect real world data,

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no matter is environmental or voice

or image or video.

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And then when you get the data

you need to transmit data.

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So we have different kind of connectivity

from LoRaWAN to Wi-Fi

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hello to Wi-Fi Bluetooth or cellular.

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And then when you get the data,

you need to know how to use the data.

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So we have the edge device

either for control

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or for more advanced video analytics

or with AI capabilities.

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So this is what we provide from sensors

to collect data, connectivity

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to transmit data, and edge

computing to process data.

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And then

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there's a fair amount of customization

that you guys do for customers as well.

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Right I know.

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I think Travis Teague

might have introduced us years ago,

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and he always pushes people to say,

hey, if you've got an idea

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and it's pretty cool, go to talk to Seeed

because they'll help you help

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you bring it to fruition.

Walk me through that process.

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What does that look like?

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Yeah, sure.

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So we do understand,

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like when we design a product,

we try to make it very comprehensive

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so that anyone in

any application can use it.

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But of course, be very comprehensive.

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Then it might be overkill

for certain scenario.

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Or sometimes

we think it might cover the knees.

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And in real world application

it might not.

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So we know that no matter how much you

want it to be perfect or to be suitable

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when it comes to a real world application,

it might not.

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So we open up our capability

to help customers with customization.

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So basically it goes

from the very beginning a prototype

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that you can use our model

to build your own prototype.

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And then when it's done

you can use our fusion PCB and piece

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be assembly service

to make a small batch or production.

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And then when you finish the small

batch production and then you manage

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a large volume of production,

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then we have our whole supply

chain manufacturing services

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to go to very large volume of production,

including like certification.

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And also even for some customers,

they say, oh,

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I have this batch that I can provide

for the customer, but what next?

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So we even open up our marketplace

like our online store,

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our sales channels

for selling them as well.

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So I think for customization

is in the whole like a package

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from prototype to production

and then also promotion and sales.

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And then when you're saying small batch,

at first

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there may be someone listening to this

that has an idea and they want to do,

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you know, 10 or 100 or a thousand.

What does small batch mean?

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Like what is that?

What are those numbers like?

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It's a very good question because I think

if you talk

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to a very traditional manufacturer

and say a small batch of them,

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I say 10,000 of them, there's a small

one for us, it is actually

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can go from one, one unit

or even or maybe five units.

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So it really depends because for example,

if you have a design ready

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and then you can upload the global file

and the build a material.

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And if you only manufacture one units

and it might be more expensive

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by the unit price. Right.

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But it can go from one or 5 or 10.

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So we we really try to make it very simple

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for people

to make what they want to make or like.

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When we talk about customization,

if we want

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the one that we have already, but

you want to the solution to be consistent.

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So your software is your brand,

but then you want the hardware

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or the whole solution

that you provide to the end

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customer is consistent

with the same brand.

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So for white labeling then

it can also start from very small batch.

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Maybe can like just make one.

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Of course

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it might be more expensive then say okay

maybe ten, then it's more reasonable.

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Yeah, that's super cool to know.

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But I've always got little projects to

to put in.

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I'm always like mucking about, okay,

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but maybe it's

just easier to go to see it,

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especially since you guys are so familiar

with LoRaWAN, which is where

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I usually kind of drift

to for for fairly obvious reasons.

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Walk me through the community piece

you guys are really big on community

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and that's a large part of your job.

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Tell me how you think Seeed fits

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into the global LoRaWAN community

and what you're doing with it.

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So I think it for as community

is always in the heart of our business

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and also the whole companies operation

because like the company

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was born out in the community

very beginning from Arduino.

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And then we have Raspberry

Pi series products.

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So when we design something,

we listen to the voice

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from the community about what they want

and then we make them so.

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And also for LoRaWAN, it's also from

the community like the things conference,

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like the things industry.

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And also helium is all community

based project.

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So for us, we we heard the noise or

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like behind the voice from the community

and learn about what they want.

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And then we make the product.

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And even when we, we know,

oh, maybe the customer want this one

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and they want to make them.

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But it's not that we think in our own lab

and make them.

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For example, one of the product

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that I am really proud of is

we have a LoRaWAN data locker.

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So it kept after we already

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launch a few units of the US,

no end nodes like sensors.

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And then people asked us like,

oh, do you have a data that can convert us

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for if I to LoRaWAN to oh, okay,

that seems interesting.

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But then when one person told us about it,

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we might market somewhere like,

no, didn't someone who owns it.

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But then we would talk to more people,

no matter

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from online or offline communication.

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We realized that a lot of demands

and that.

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So we talk to our team

and then we turn into products.

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So this is a very typical past that we

learned about the news from the community.

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And then we make them.

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And then when we heard more of the needs,

we might have new versions coming out

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that can cater to the wider niche

or maybe a smaller but niche needs.

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Got it.

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Yeah, it's super cool

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to see what you guys are doing

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and then walk me through this other

piece of open source.

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I know that's a really big part

of what you guys are doing.

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So for us,

when we talk about community, also,

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many people think about like,

how easy can I use the product

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and if it is open source

then it is easier for people to like

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put their somewhere on it

or even maybe change closure for it

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because we have all the design file

already there.

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So for us, we have a lot of our products

that are open source,

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or maybe at the very beginning

it is not open source.

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And later we realized that a lot of these

and by open sourcing the product,

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it will make it easier.

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So another example is we have our tracker.

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So we have our since capture 1000 tracker

a different version of them.

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And we have like the one version

have sensors, the other doesn't

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as AMD also have another version

that is supporting mesh tastic.

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And many people ask us and say, oh,

I wanted to use this,

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but with this other functionality like not

press button twice for S.O.S., but once.

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Or maybe I want to the lead color

with demand integration.

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Is that so?

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We are thinking,

it will be customized for them.

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On the one end, we need a lot of resources

within our team,

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and then maybe we have other projects

that occupy the team's resources already.

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So I think this year

we will release tracker

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and it is open

source two that is supporting LoRaWAN.

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And then you can put your own on there too

and develop for your own needs.

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So for us, open source

is also something that

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on the one hand people are thinking about

if it is open source,

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how can you make money?

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And on the other hand, people are thinking

about open source is really awesome.

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So for us, we understand when we open

source it, we might get copied.

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But on the other hand

we understand by open

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sourcing our products

it help the community thrive

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and help people adopt

and use our products in an easier way.

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So it is something that we always hold

dear to our heart

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and we try our best to balance this.

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Like on the one hand,

we are business companies

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that need to grow with our business,

but on the other hand,

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we want to see how we can grow together

with a community.

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Listen to their voice

and also to support them.

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And open source is one of the important

ways that we support the community.

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Yeah, yeah,

that's always the the question.

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I mean, for smaller makers,

it's a little bit easier to open source

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everything because for many projects

it just doesn't make sense for a company

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to come along, make 10,000 of something

that nobody really cares about.

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But for you guys, it's

it is pretty important.

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It's cool

to see that you guys are doing it.

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It's a nice segue into tech for good.

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Can you walk me through what what that is?

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Yeah, definitely.

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So I think it's all interlinked, right?

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Within all this different concept

that we hold as a like what we talk about

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and what we do.

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So when we talk about technology, on the

one hand, sometimes it might be daunting.

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People are thinking about,

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oh, this kind of technology,

is it more harmful or is it more useful.

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So on this, in this case,

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I think what we try to do

is we want to spread the technology

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at least like educating about it

to make it easier for people to use.

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So I think like currently

now we are talking in

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this podcast is a way to spread the word

about

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the positive side of LoRaWAN

and also about its application.

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So I think in this way

it can be put into the wide

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scope of education of the technology.

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So we do put a lot of efforts in that

no matter with individuals,

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we have some of our partners,

we call them arrangers.

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So the workshop in Local Community

Online is a tried to educate

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people about different kind of technology

to get hands on how to use them.

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And also we collaborate

with universities, institutes,

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with professors, students

and show them how to use the technology.

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So this is one thing.

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What about how we can make technology

easily accessible

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with the materials,

with the content, with the support?

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But on the other hand,

we also support the community

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with tech feel Good

about how we can use technology

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in a scenario that can alleviate disaster

or get an early response.

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Or maybe for like a marine conservation.

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Is that so?

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When we talk about LoRaWAN, I think that

the merit of it is very outstanding

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how it can be able to deploy it

and collect data from a very remote area.

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But in this case, some people, on the one

hand, they may not know this technology

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or on the other hand,

when they know this technology,

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it might be difficult for them to use it.

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If it is not robust enough

or if it is too complex

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with too high requirements

for like tech stack.

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So what we try to do is on the one hand,

we might sponsor some of the products,

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and then we also provide our team

or our community partners

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supported to

to help them with the deployment

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or the the integration

and on the other hand,

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when it comes to the specific scenario

about the knees,

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we might co-develop certain projects

together with the community,

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because the ones that we have right now

might not meet the needs.

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Then we can work with them together

and say, hey,

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we understand

this kind of data is important

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and we don't have them in our

in our roadmap.

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And it might not be enough to turn into

a product that can sell with a high ROI.

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And then in this case,

we would take it as a kind of project

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that we put it

under the program as so good,

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so we could develop this project,

and then it might not be profitable,

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but it will be able to deploy it

in this scenario.

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And then other people

see how it can be used in this way.

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Then it might attract more people

to use it as well, and eventually

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it might turn into a commercial project.

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And so the the partner who design it

with as

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they are able

to turn the ideas into products as well.

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So I think in.

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Net we could then divide it in a very

clear way about which one is for profit.

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And which one is not for profit.

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But what we always try to do

is to steer it in the way that we show

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technology is accessible, technology

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is like easy to use, like practical.

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Sure. Yeah. Nothing theoretical.

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And also technology is not something

that is up in there in the book,

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but also to the s that you can

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literally like solidly touch it

and then use it

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for something that is influencing

in our daily basis as well.

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Yeah, it's so cool.

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Super cool to see what you guys are

are doing with that.

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I would be remiss if I didn't mention that

that one of your Seeed Rangers

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is Robert Boggs.

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Yeah, and I don't think

I've seen anyone more stoked to.

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To go to what?

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He just went to the Maker Faire

in Shenzhen.

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Yeah, right.

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So yes, definitely.

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So I think it again, I think this is

an example of how something

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that can be tiny from a certain scope,

when you look at it like a robot always.

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That is from a small village and he's

building something that no one cares.

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: 00:16:00

But then, I mean, he's been inspiring

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a lot of people,

and now we are talking to like, Robert.

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: 00:16:06

And there's another a partner, Tom,

you ought to interview him, right?

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: 00:16:10

Oh yeah. Yeah.

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: 00:16:11

So I think they

they are some of the examples of like

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: 00:16:15

how an individual feels something that is

influencing that the local community

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: 00:16:20

and then gradually

it grows the impact to a wider audience.

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: 00:16:24

So he came to make a fish and then

and then he sort of spruce there.

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: 00:16:27

So what he did for the village,

with a lot of end solutions

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: 00:16:31

for environmental sensing, climate data,

and also about the swimming pool.

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: 00:16:36

And so many people are talking with him.

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: 00:16:38

And then some of them

might even not speak English well.

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: 00:16:42

And then they use translation.

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: 00:16:43

And then talking about

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: 00:16:44

how his documentation online will be able

to help them build their own solutions.

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: 00:16:49

So I think those kind of projects

or individuals,

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: 00:16:53

these are really inspiring us

to to move forward and say

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: 00:16:58

this is something that I'm proud of,

and then we want to do more.

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: 00:17:01

Yeah, yeah.

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: 00:17:02

It was it was rad to see his documentation

of the whole thing.

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: 00:17:05

And it's really cool to see that

you guys have this really kind

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: 00:17:08

of ecosystem

mindset versus just just product.

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: 00:17:12

Maybe we wrap this thing up with you've

seen a lot of what's going on in LoRaWAN.

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: 00:17:16

What are some things that you wish more

people knew about either Seeed or LoRaWAN,

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: 00:17:20

as you just travel the world and

and gain insight?

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: 00:17:23

Yeah, I think sometimes

when we talk about technology,

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: 00:17:27

it might be a little bit isolated

when it's like in this technology

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: 00:17:31

specifically because, for example,

I think when we first launch the camera

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: 00:17:35

that we mentioned earlier

during this conversation,

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: 00:17:38

the first thing people talk to is like,

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: 00:17:39

oh, a LoRaWAN couldn't send image,

then how can you do that?

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: 00:17:43

So I think there are two things

about LoRaWAN that excites me.

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: 00:17:47

And then I think I want more

people to know is on the one

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: 00:17:49

hand, you do not necessarily

send to the image, right?

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: 00:17:52

Because you just need the result,

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: 00:17:54

even though you send the image

through Wi-Fi or something,

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: 00:17:57

eventually you want to know

what happened in the image.

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: 00:18:00

So you all need the result.

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: 00:18:01

So the good thing about it is now

we can combine AI with LoRaWAN.

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: 00:18:07

So so is I kept saying like

with this camera, if you train the model

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: 00:18:11

for butterfly, then you're able to call it

a butterfly sensor.

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: 00:18:15

And then you send the data

when it detects butterfly or not,

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: 00:18:18

or maybe detect this kind of butterfly

or the other kind of butterfly, like for

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: 00:18:22

for conservation. Right.

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: 00:18:23

But on the other hand,

I know that Semtech has a new chip

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: 00:18:26

coming out and then it can support

sending image as well.

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: 00:18:30

So like we can never be limited

with the development of technology.

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: 00:18:35

So now like when I introduced the camera

I was like, oh I know Lora,

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: 00:18:40

when you couldn't send image of a Laurel

and now I need to change it to like, yes.

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: 00:18:43

Now you can send image by LoRaWAN as well.

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: 00:18:46

So this is something very exciting

and I know is very new with the chip.

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: 00:18:50

But I think we will have the development

kit coming out very soon.

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: 00:18:54

I couldn't help but thinking about

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: 00:18:57

what kind of application

that people can make with this new chip.

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: 00:19:01

And who knows, maybe

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: 00:19:02

in a few months or like in a year or two,

there will be other chips coming out

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: 00:19:06

and then we can get even more data

with LoRaWAN

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: 00:19:10

and or like

maybe it reach a wider range or like

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: 00:19:14

now we are also talking about LoRaWAN

with like satellite as well.

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: 00:19:17

So this yeah, just a lot of excitement

and a lot of possibilities

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: 00:19:21

which very excited about.

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: 00:19:23

Yeah, it's a great time to be alive

and in the LoRaWAN ecosystem.

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: 00:19:28

I know that Alper was talking

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: 00:19:29

just the other day in his AMA

about the satellite side.

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: 00:19:31

So that's super cool to see

come down the pipe,

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: 00:19:33

but I know you're super busy travel a ton.

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: 00:19:35

Thanks for carving out some time

to talk to us on The Business of LoRaWAN

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: 00:19:38

thank you so much for having me.

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: 00:19:40

I'm looking forward

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: 00:19:41

to learning more about different kind

of LoRaWAN applications from your podcast.

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: 00:19:46

That's it for

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: 00:19:47

this episode of The Business of LoRaWAN.

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: 00:19:50

I built this for you.

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: 00:19:51

The one person in about 100,000

who actually has an interest

390

: 00:19:54

in how this tiny little slice of the world

works.

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: 00:19:57

Of course, this isn't just about you

and me, it's about everyone in law

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: 00:20:00

and how we can work together

to make an exceptional thing.

393

: 00:20:03

LoRaWAN is a dispersed community

with little pockets of knowledge

394

: 00:20:06

all around the world,

and most of them don't

395

: 00:20:08

talk to each other as much as I'd like.

396

: 00:20:10

So the first and best thing

we can do to make this show better

397

: 00:20:14

is to get more guests

on who I don't even know exist.

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: 00:20:17

I want to talk to strangers.

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: 00:20:18

Strangers who are your friends.

400

: 00:20:21

Please

introduce me to the most rad LoRaWANeer

401

: 00:20:24

you know or point to my way, or reach out

and give me a name.

402

: 00:20:27

When it comes to running down

LoRaWAN guests, I can track a falcon

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: 00:20:30

on a cloudy day.

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: 00:20:31

If you can remember Mexico,

you can find me.

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: 00:20:35

That's m e t s ci dot o w.

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: 00:20:40

That's Rico.

407

: 00:20:42

Okay, so sharing knowledge

by getting great guests on is the first,

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: 00:20:46

and by far the most important thing

we can do to make this better.

409

: 00:20:49

The next best thing for the show to do

is the usual stuff.

410

: 00:20:52

Subscribe to the show, give it a review,

share it in your corner of the world.

411

: 00:20:56

Again, that's Matt's sideshow.

412

: 00:20:58

Finally, if you want to support the show

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: 00:21:00

financially, you can do that

over at support Dot Net Sideshow.

414

: 00:21:04

You'll see options there

for one time donations.

415

: 00:21:06

If you really like this show,

as well as an ongoing subscription option.

416

: 00:21:10

If you think the show is worth supporting

for the long term.

417

: 00:21:12

If you want to try LoRaWAN for yourself,

sign up for a scientific account

418

: 00:21:16

at console dot medio Scientific Comm and

get your first 400 data credits for free.

419

: 00:21:22

That's enough to run a sensor for

about a year if you're firing every hour.

420

: 00:21:25

The show is supported by a grant

from the Helium Foundation and produced by

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: 00:21:29

Crystal King, Inc..

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: 00:21:30

I'm Nick Cox.

I'll see you on the next show.