What Hasn't Been Done

Speaker: 00:00:08

Today's guest on

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MeteoScientifc's

The Business of LoRaWAN is Bob Blanchard,

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senior manager of business

development at Klika Tech.

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Bob brings a rare combination

of creativity and technical expertise

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to the IoT world.

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With decades of experience

designing and deploying wireless solutions

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at Klika Tech, he focuses on end to end

LoRaWAN deployments from initial ideation

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through to cloud integration,

with clients ranging from smart resorts

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and multi-family housing developments

to medical monitoring startups.

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In this episode, Bob shares

what actually makes LoRaWAN a slam dunk

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fit for certain environments, how Klika

Tech identifies high ROI use cases,

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and what common mistakes companies

make when evaluating IoT protocols.

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He walks us through real world

deployments, like monitoring pill packs

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to reduce opioid overdoses, and explains

how LoRaWAN avoids the interference issues

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that plague other wireless tech

like Zigbee and Bluetooth.

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This episode is sponsored by the Helium

Foundation's IoT Working Group.

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Helium offers global LoRaWAN coverage that

you can use exclusively for roam onto.

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: 00:01:07

If you'd like to see if Helium

coverage exists near you,

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: 00:01:09

check out the links in the show notes

to get started using Helium today.

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: 00:01:12

You can sign up for a console account

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: 00:01:14

with MeteoScientific

at console.meteoscientific.com.

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: 00:01:18

Now let's dig into the conversation

with Bob Blanchard.

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Bob, welcome to the show.

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Thanks for coming on, man.

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All right. Hey,

it's a pleasure to be here.

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Thank you for having me.

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I'm super pumped.

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I thought we'd start at the place that

you wouldn't expect anyone in IoT to be.

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Which is?

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You're a self-described

inventor and artist.

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So walk me through

how someone like that comes to tech.

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Comes to IoT and LoRaWAN.

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Oh, you know, it's it's funny.

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You know, it's a creative mind thing.

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I'm one of those weird people

that has both sides of the brain

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functioning at that,

you know, equal level, so to speak.

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I've been a photographer

my whole life, you know, literally

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since I was a young teenager

and published very early

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and have always been behind the camera

creating, and that carried forward.

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You know, I had a passion for technology.

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So even when I was just a youngster

in high school

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and I've been around a long time

here, you know, pre-internet, everything,

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but I always had a passion

for technology as well.

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So the two converge in a in a big way.

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So when you talk about an inventor,

an artist, call it a Renaissance

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man thing or whatever,

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but it's it's about having vision

to see things before they actually exist.

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So whenever I take a picture

or create a photograph or whatever,

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I'm always composing it in my mind

and then creating it in a camera.

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And whenever you invent something,

what's the first thing that happens?

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You're imagining it in your mind, and

then you're figuring out how to create it.

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You know,

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you can see if you have a mind like this,

you can literally see

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the end product in extreme detail before

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the first step has ever been done

to execute on that product.

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And you have no idea what the road between

the inspiration

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and the end path is going to be like

is usually very zigzag.

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Yeah, rarely ever straight, but

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you just have that ability

to see what is going to be at the end.

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And it's just that creative mind that does

that.

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You can paint the picture

and see it clearly before it ever exists.

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Well, it's a it's a nice way

to skip ahead to my last question

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and we'll come back to the rest of them.

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But it begs the question, what do you see

now that doesn't exist yet?

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Specifically in LoRaWAN

but could be in the wider world of IoT

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that is like, okay,

this is very clearly coming.

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I'm not sure how we're going to get there,

but this is what's going to happen.

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I actually see a lot of things.

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I see a lot of use cases

that that haven't been explored yet.

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In fact, in some cases, we've even written

some articles for LinkedIn

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for things that nobody has done yet

with LoRaWAN.

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That can happen.

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You know, one of the cases that I put out

there, just arbitrarily, not

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to my knowledge, doesn't even exist, was,

you know, golf course management,

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you know, using LoRaWAN

for golf course management

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to do everything

from judging distance to holes to,

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you know, managing the entire greens

keeping process and ensuring

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that you're not putting holes

in the same place that they were before,

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or monitoring the soil

for nutrient contents

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for moisture to better conserve water

and make the course just healthier.

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And it's a total arbitrary case,

but it's very doable with LoRaWAN,

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and it's the perfect solution for it,

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because again, you're dealing

with a very vast area where long range

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communication is necessary because you're

certainly not going to bury wires.

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To do all of this,

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you need to have radio communications

that can reach those distances

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and yet monitor those sensors and devices

that you put out there.

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And at the same time,

it can actually enhance the

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the user experience as well by saying,

here's the exact distance to the hole.

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We've got a sensor in the flagstick or

something, and we know exactly where it is

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on the green.

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And here's from your cart.

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Here's exactly where it is.

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So there's and you could do that

through a mobile app or whatever.

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So there's lots of opportunity there

that people just don't think about.

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And and I think

that's where that comes in.

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I mean, even within building management

and property management,

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there are so many unexplored

and untapped capabilities within long

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range, low bandwidth protocols

like LoRaWAN

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that can make the infrastructure

so much easier to manage

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without a lot of infrastructure headache,

of having to deal with

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lots of gateways and lots of wire

pulling and, you know, switch ports

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and all the things that you have to do

to deal with traditional IoT management.

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LoRaWAN gives you capabilities

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for those types of use cases

where it's such a shoe in fit.

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And one of the things that I always talk

to customers about when it comes to

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LoRaWAN is especially when you're

dealing with things like multifamily homes

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or resorts in hotel environments

and things like that,

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you don't understand

a lot of times the way that wireless

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technologies interact and interfere

with one another.

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And when you're dealing with IoT devices

that are being used heavily in a customer

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Wi-Fi environment,

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you're all working

in the same frequency range,

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whether you're using Zigbee

or whether you're using

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Bluetooth or whatever,

and those create problems.

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It interferes with guests ability

to use Wi-Fi

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and interferes with your ability

to monitor your devices.

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When you put LoRaWAN in play,

it works at frequency ranges

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well outside of that 2.4GHz spectrum,

and gives you the ability

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not to have to worry about that you're not

dealing with impacting your guests.

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You're not dealing with having to worry

about whether you're going

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to get a sensor reading, because there's

so many people using Wi-Fi or whatever.

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And you're not able to be

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on top of channel management

and all the things you have to watch.

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So it's those types of things

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that I don't think a lot of people

really calculate in when they're looking

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at their wireless solutions

for those types of environments.

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And that's where I see

a lot of untapped capability,

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not to mention the fact

that, you know, again,

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in even inside of a building,

you don't need very many gateways at all.

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You know, maybe a couple,

maybe one per property.

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It just depends on the construction.

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But it's nothing

like if you're putting in the higher

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bandwidth, shorter distance protocols,

you've got to have them everywhere.

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And so it cuts way down on the expense

and the maintenance.

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Okay.

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So I can I can see just from that

how you might pitch a potential customer

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for, for Klika Tech

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because you obviously obviously can talk

about what LoRaWAN can do.

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Can you walk me through maybe how you're

finding or targeting those customers?

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If it's not, if it's not secret sauce,

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and then if there's kind

of a standard customer flow, we say, hey,

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we found this person.

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Here's how we kind of process them

through from a business perspective,

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what we're doing.

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Yeah.

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In many cases, in some cases they come

to us obviously through our site.

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In many cases

we might contact them in a trade show

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where we we're pretty active

in the trade show scene, where

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we're out there looking for the people

who are looking for the solutions.

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And as well as we have incredible partners

that we work with.

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And a lot of times our partners

this where we're very diverse.

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We're not just, you know, a company that

specializes in LoRaWAN or anything else.

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We work in all levels of technology.

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We're really an enhanced solution provider

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all the way from the cloud,

all the way back to the device.

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And literally everything

in between mobile app development,

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web app development, cloud infrastructure,

all of that.

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So many times our partners are referring

their clients to us

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who are building something, and they need

that long range protocol environment.

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So we'll get a lot of leads

from them as well.

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As, you know, we're out there obviously

active more actively marketing as well.

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We've got a great marketing team

and they're doing a great job.

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But again, going out and finding people

and as a result we've had yeah.

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So multi multi-headed I guess

is basically the best way to put it.

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We don't have one

simple approach. It's many.

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And is there a

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like the most common problem if someone

kind of pulls you aside at a trade show

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they're like oh, what do you do

when you start talking to them?

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You're like, oh, I can totally help you.

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Is there something that you're looking for

other than like,

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oh, they need some kind of long

range solution?

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Or are there

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specific things that you guys are like,

oh my God, we've

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we've rolled out these smart buildings

so many times,

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I can have this rolled out

faster than anyone else

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just because we've done it

a thousand times kind of thing.

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Yeah, I would say, well, you know,

environment has a lot to do with it.

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For example,

I'm here in the heart of Orlando.

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I'm literally three miles down the road

from Disney World.

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So there are a lot of mega resorts around

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us, and they're big properties

in many cases.

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They're multi building.

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Some of them have 5 or 6 golf

courses on them, etc. etc.

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etc..

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Well,

how do you manage an environment like that

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without pulling infrastructure

all over the place?

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I mean, some of these properties are 2

or 300 acres

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and LoRaWAN is a perfect solution

for that, for interconnecting

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your entire campus

and being able to manage it.

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And so some of it is just slam dunk

type stuff.

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Right?

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And even when you're talking about

intra building, as I alluded to before,

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where you really just trying

to cut down on infrastructure cost

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and all you have are devices

that are speaking very,

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very small amounts of data that,

at a relatively infrequent rate of time.

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You know, I always tell people

I probably wouldn't recommend LoRaWAN

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for a missile warning system,

it arrived ten minutes ago.

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But I would

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certainly recommend it for,

you know, wanting to know if there was a,

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you know, a leak somewhere

or something like that where you can

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still respond

within a reasonable amount of time

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without it being a life threatening event,

kind of a deal.

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And are there customers

that you hear about

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that are kind of commonly thought

of as being LoRaWAN customers,

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where you think,

I just there's not enough money in that.

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And for me,

agriculture comes to mind in some sense

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where it's like how you like,

you really got to have the right

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type of farmer who’s saying or rancher

saying, yep, this is what I want to do,

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and I can very clearly see the cost

savings, etc..

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Are there customers out there like, oh,

that's not really what we are looking for,

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you know, not really.

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I never try to pigeonhole

anybody like that.

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I always try to look at it from,

what's your problem?

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And we're going to give you a solution.

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Maybe it's LoRaWAN maybe it isn't,

but we're going to evaluate it.

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And in many cases, for example, gosh,

we've done things.

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Everything.

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One of the coolest ones that we've done

was a pillpack monitoring system

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that where it's blister packs of medicine

that insert into a simple cradle,

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and there's a company whose name is

Counted, we helped them develop this?

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It basically lets the

the monitoring facilities know

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that this person

is taking their medication,

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or they forgot to take their medication,

or they took too much of their medication.

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So every time they pop a pill,

it trips a sensor in the pack

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and sends a LoRaWAN message back and says,

super cool.

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Yeah.

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So that's kind of one of the cooler ones

that we've done.

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But again, you needed something

that you don't know if they're out

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sitting in a restaurant

or if they're at home or where they are.

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So you have to be able to monitor

that happening

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in a reasonable amount of time

and be able to alert,

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you know, number one,

if they didn't take their medication

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when they were supposed to

or they took too much of it

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and it was really driven

the person who did

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it had a medical background

and saw the opioid problem,

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and he wanted to come up with a solution

to prevent

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opioid overdoses by, you know, people

taking too much of their medicine

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or whatever.

And that was what was kind of the driver.

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It was a really cool project to work on.

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Really nice folks.

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When you do those,

you must learn a ton from every project.

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Are there

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things that you've learned over the years

were like, oh, this would really help.

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Like, let's say

there's someone listening to this

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who just started their LoRaWAN company

or their IoT company and you're like,

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okay, I'm listening to this

because I want to learn from folks.

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You've been there.

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What are some kind of lessons from the,

I think, lesson from the Masters?

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Lessons from

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the trenches were like, well,

don't don't do this or definitely do that.

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Oh my goodness.

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Yeah. There's always lessons

learned in every single project.

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I would say

I've probably learned more lessons

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from the higher frequency band problems

that I have from LoRaWAN.

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To be honest with you.

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I mean, that's a good signal

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in that LoRaWAN

just doesn't have as many problems.

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Right?

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I can tell you about a particular project

that we worked on in my past,

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where we were doing a Zigbee mesh network

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and did all the scientific work

to figure out

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what this particular facility

needed, etc., etc., etc.

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and once it got deployed, nothing worked

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and we couldn't figure out why

nothing worked.

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And of course they're calling us

and they're upset

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because their Zigbee mesh network

was very unreliable, to say the least.

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And when we went back in

and looked at the building,

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they had hung metallic wall art,

all of the walls inside of the building.

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So there were signal blockers everywhere.

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Yeah.

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And of course,

where do you put the infrastructure in?

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None of that was there.

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So you couldn't test it, you know,

and that's, you know, that's obviously

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always the shortcoming of radio

signals of any type

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that, you know,

there are things that they can go through

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very well, and there are other things

they can't go through very well.

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But what you will find

is that with LoRaWAN,

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it can go through things a lot

better than almost anything else can.

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It is pretty special that way. Yeah, yeah.

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It's always an amazing thing where like,

I know you see this thick set of walls,

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but trust me,

your signal can can get in or get out.

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Okay, so it sounds like, Klika

Tech is doing kind of the whole thing.

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Is there anything in there

that you guys out there

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that you think is super special

about what you do or you're like, oh,

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this is the one thing we do probably

better than anyone else in the world.

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I mean, you guys are partners of AWS.

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It's you're not a small venture.

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You're figuring it out.

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Yeah.

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We actually just got

our premier partnership with AWS.

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As a matter of fact,

it's been a big deal for us.

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And so we're really proud of that.

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I think probably our biggest thing

that we bring is our ability

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to co-create with our customers.

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So we just don't listen to them and say,

what do you want us to do?

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And we'll do it.

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We actually sit down

and really engage with them

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and we really help them

develop their idea.

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We give them a lot of our lessons

learned as, as you said, and teach them.

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Yeah, that's probably not the best way

to approach that.

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But this other approach works

a lot better. We've experienced this.

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We've done it. This way

and it works really well.

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It's an ability to sit down with that

customer, really understand their needs.

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We have probably the best R&D team

that I've ever been around.

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I mean, these guys are really,

really good,

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: 00:15:32

and I know they're going to probably

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: 00:15:33

watch this podcast

and I'll never hear the end of it,

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: 00:15:36

but that's okay, I will

I will blow their horn all day long.

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: 00:15:39

They're really good people. Really.

All of our people are.

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: 00:15:42

We don't have any junior level

people in this company.

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: 00:15:45

Everybody that we have on

board is a serious,

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: 00:15:48

seriously good engineer, or developer.

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: 00:15:52

And, you know, so it's fun to work around

that, you know, for,

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: 00:15:56

for people who have ever been

in that place where

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: 00:15:59

you're kind of that go to person

that's doing it all.

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: 00:16:02

And I've been in companies

where I was in that role.

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: 00:16:05

Yeah, man, I came here and I'm

just a face in the crowd.

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: 00:16:08

It's fun because you can get into

some ideation sessions in this place

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: 00:16:13

that will absolutely blow your mind,

and the ideas

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: 00:16:16

and the solutions that come out of it

are just as fun as could be.

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: 00:16:20

So that is what I would say

is probably our

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: 00:16:24

our biggest strong

suit is our people are all really smart,

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: 00:16:28

they're really creative,

and they really are customer obsessed.

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: 00:16:32

And and it shows, you know,

in all the products that we help produce.

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: 00:16:36

So that's right.

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: 00:16:38

It's it's always good to have

a super strong, stable very cool. Bob.

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: 00:16:42

Thanks ton for making the time.

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: 00:16:43

I know

all of the folks in IoT are super busy.

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: 00:16:45

There's always a million other things

you can do.

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: 00:16:46

I appreciate you coming on

and kind of talking us

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: 00:16:48

through a little bit of what you do,

thanks man.

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: 00:16:50

Alright Hey,

I appreciate it, man. Thank you.

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: 00:16:53

That's it for

this episode of The Business of LoRaWAN.

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: 00:16:57

I built This for you.

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: 00:16:58

So whether you're a business owner,

a lawyer, one professional or a hobbyist,

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: 00:17:01

the intent is to give you great

LoRaWAN information.

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: 00:17:03

And of course,

the best information doesn't come from me.

339

: 00:17:06

It comes from the conversations

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: 00:17:07

we have with the people building

and deploying this tech in the real world.

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: 00:17:11

And that's where you come in.

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: 00:17:12

LoRaWAN is a global

patchwork of talent and ideas.

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: 00:17:15

And ironically,

for a globally connected network,

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: 00:17:17

most of the brilliant folks working on it

aren’t connected yet.

345

: 00:17:20

Help me change that.

346

: 00:17:21

Introduce me

to someone awesome in your network,

347

: 00:17:24

someone doing meaningful work in LoRaWAN

work.

348

: 00:17:26

Just shoot me a name.

349

: 00:17:27

I'll take it from there

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: 00:17:28

and get them on the show

so we can share their work with the world.

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: 00:17:31

You can always find me at metsci.show

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: 00:17:34

That's M-E-T-S-C-I dot

353

: 00:17:37

S-H-O-W, metsci.show.

354

: 00:17:41

If you want to support the show

in other ways, you can subscribe,

355

: 00:17:43

leave a review,

share it with your corner of the world.

356

: 00:17:45

All those are super helpful.

357

: 00:17:47

If you'd like to support financially,

you can go to support.metsci.show

358

: 00:17:52

for both one time and recurring options.

359

: 00:17:54

We're also open to sponsors.

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: 00:17:55

If your company serves

the LoRaWAN community

361

: 00:17:57

and you want to reach this dedicated

audience, let's talk.

362

: 00:18:01

If you want to try LoRaWAN for yourself,

create a MeteoScientific account

363

: 00:18:04

at console.meteoscientific.com

and get your first 400 DC for free,

364

: 00:18:09

which is enough to run a device

sending hourly for about a year.

365

: 00:18:13

This show is supported

366

: 00:18:14

by a grant from the Helium Foundation

and produced by Gristle King, Inc..

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: 00:18:18

I'm Nik Hawks.

I'll see you on the next show.